First Segment
Sandy Dhuyvetter: Welcome back to Travel Talk Radio, my name is Sandy Dhuyvetter and I’m
your host for the last, well, almost
9 years now. We have someone
joining us who has been with us
almost that long, Alex Anolik. He is
a travel attorney up in San
Francisco, a good friend of ours,
and we’ve always gone to him when we
have things that are really
perplexing and questions about the
industry, and what’s going on. Al,
great to have you with us today.
Alexander Anolik: Great to be back, and when I do research I always go to Travel Talk to
see you if you have the subject for
my research.
Sandy:
Well, thank you very much I really
appreciate that. Hey, you know,
before we get into the mud and the
blood and the beer here, can we talk
a little bit about polo? Did you
watch the match with the Prince?
Anolik:
I did watch it, and I can say that,
10 years ago, I sat on the same
saddle and horse that he had sat 2
weeks earlier. And that was supposed
to be exciting, but it was another
saddle and a horse.
Sandy:
(Laughs) Hey, that is tremendous.
Are you still playing?
Anolik:
I am. At 70 years old, still up
there, metal hip last year, and some
crazy glue to keep me in the saddle,
but, it’s a great excitement, and
energy for it.
Sandy:
You’re an amazing man. I mean, you
are going for it all of the time.
And, you know, I called you because
we’ve been having a lot of interest
in cruise line regulation and the
legislation that is out in the House
of Representatives in Washington, DC
and now the Senate. And, I thought,
if there is anybody that can bring a
calm to the storm and can give us
really the facts, it would be you. I
called you and, to my delight, you
were very versed and you knew
exactly what was going on. Can we
talk a little bit about this cruise
line safety act, and is there a
problem out there?
Anolik:
Well, there is a problem for years.
And I’ve come to this perspective
through four different backgrounds.
I started out representing the
Marine Cooks and Stewards Union, I
then moved over - when I got pulled
across the negotiating table by my
tie - I moved over to
representing ships. I represented,
as general counsel, various cruise
lines. Then, I went into more the
travel industry and then wound up
with the consumer. But, my
background was security, law
enforcement, and risk management, so
I have seen issues for years in how
the cruise lines have covered up
these problems. And, we haven’t been
able to get legislation the same way
we can’t get a passenger rights bill
to help us with aviation. We need
legislation to tell the ships they
must cooperate and give us
information so that we can help
convict different people.
Sandy:
Why is it taking so long, I mean we
are still not there, but what’s the
hold up here? Are they so powerful
that they can control and lobby that
strongly?
Anolik:
They are powerful because it is this
multi-multi-billion dollar industry
and, like the aviation industry,
Congress wants to try to help
tourism, try to help airlines as
well as cruise lines, but they’ve
left behind the traveler; they’ve
left behind the consumer. And, the
US Congress has been able to put
limitations on how much you could
sue a ship for, they’ve cooperated
with the Montreal and Hague
Conventions on how much you can sue
an airline for. So they are trying
to be protective, and the consumer
doesn’t have the rights that he or
she needs.
Sandy:
Yeah, they are paying for it aren’t
they? You know, it’s quite
mind-boggling what’s happening out
there, the amount of people that are
affected. And, I was quite
interested in this, too. Like you
said, you have really represented
the industry, the cruise lines, the
airlines. But, on this particular
subject, you really feel strongly
that it’s time for a change. How
can we make this happen, and how do
you foresee that this is going to
unfold?
Anolik:
Well, I can see parts of this new
legislation going through. The new
legislation proposed by Senator
Kerry, the S588, and by
Representative Matsui, the 1485,
give you some basics. Put a peephole
on a door. My goodness, how basic is
that? You can hardy go rent an
apartment in some cities and that’s
not a law. So, let us have
peepholes, let us have latches to
try to keep out people. That’s
simple. But, the real key is
something that they could easily do,
is just tell these ships: if you
take the millions of US passengers
that you do, you better collect
evidence if there’s a crime. You
better not try to cover it up, and
you better report to the Coast
Guard, the FBI, Homeland Security.
When you get back to a port and
something’s happened, we want to
know about it here because we want
to help prevent future crimes and
the ships do all they can to cover
this up.
Sandy:
Amazing story. You know, part of
this legislation is putting on, I
guess I wouldn’t call it an air
marshal, but maybe a cruise marshal;
somebody that has the background,
not really working for the cruise
ship itself. Do you see something
like that as common sense or an
opportunity to work?
Anolik:
Well, the California bill had
actually 2 types of marshals. One,
the Ecology Marshal, to see if
they’re dumping garbage over the
back which they’ve been prone to do;
to make sure there’s no discharges,
you know, in different areas. But,
the other is the security. We have
such a need for the security. And,
again, using this as an area I
testify to sometimes as an expert
witness, the security is more
engaged in keeping the outside
duty-free liquor off the ship so the
passengers are forced to buy the
cutsie little drinks with the
umbrellas, than sometimes
concentrating on security while on
board. That’s a different need.
There are thieves on board. You’ve
got close surroundings on board. You
have a lot of drinking on board. You
have a lot of assaults and a lot of
rapes. And, people can’t do much,
especially if they’re part of the
crew. And, this is wrong. This has
got to be protected as a basic human
right; protect those people that are
working for you or are paying good
money to be passengers.
Sandy:
Absolutely. You know, we are going
to take a quick break and were
coming back with Alexander Anolik;
he’s an attorney, travel attorney,
out of San Francisco. Travellaw.com
is his website. We’ll be right back
with Al.
End of First Segment
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Second Segment
Sandy:
Alright, welcome back to Travel Talk
Radio. My name is Sandy Dhuyvetter.
Come on over to our website at
traveltalkradio.com
or even
traveltalkmedia.com.
They will open the same door, but
all the programming is there,
whether it’s radio or television. We
have Alexander Anolik with us today.
He is a travel attorney out of San
Francisco. He’s been on our program
for years and we always are so
excited to get him here because he
gives us not only the common sense
of law, but the preventative
measures. That’s what he’s all
about, preventative. Well, how would
you call it, preventative medicine?
Anolik:
My series of books are preventative
legal care.
Sandy:
There you go, preventative legal
care. Thank you, Al
Anolik:
Travel law and preventative legal
care.
Sandy:
You know, you’ve got a, well, it’s
not a new book, but it’s a revised
or a new version, the Traveler’s
Rights I love that book! I keep
it with me, did you know that? I
keep it with me wherever I travel
to.
Anolik:
Well, you’ll love the new one,
because its thinner, smaller print,
but it’s been cut down in size so
that you can carry it with you. And,
when they give you static and they
overbook you or they lose your
luggage, or they’re trying to pull a
weather or a 240, and do you want to
get on another flight. You pull it
out. You put it on the counter and
say, “Look it, this is what the law
is. And unless you want to be some
part of Al’s chapter next year, you
get me on that plane!” That’s why it
has been revised.
Sandy:
(Laughs) Well, you know what, if you
come on over to our site, you will
see the programming, and of course
this is June 21st, and
you will see not only Al’s picture,
the link into
travellaw.com,
but also a link into getting this
book. And, it’s very important that
you keep it with you. I adore mine.
It has kept me in great, great
passage everywhere I go, so I highly
recommend it. You know, Al, we have
been talking about cruise ships and
this new legislation that is in the
Senate, with John Kerry and then, of
course, in the House of
Representatives, Doris Matsui out of
Sacramento. You are a proponent for
this legislation, aren’t you?
Anolik:
It’s a start. We need legislation
that basically recognizes travelers
have rights. And yes, put up a
higher railing because some of our
people, you know, depending on how
tall they are, they can fall over
the railing. Those are good. But,
more is the reporting of the crime
at sea. We’ve got to be able to make
the cruise lines keep this
information, not engage in cover
ups. Turn it over and cooperate.
That’s the biggest part of the
legislation. And, what legislator
could disagree with that? That tells
somebody, if there is some incident
happening on your ship, you’re not
to cover up, you’re to assist with
the authorities. Who can vote
against that? And if they voted
against that, you let them know in
the next election, they shouldn’t
have done that.
Sandy:
So, do you think that there is a
probable case that people will vote
against this? I mean, it seems like
such commonsense. All the points
that we have been talking about, the
segment before and now, they seem
like common sense, but do they think
there is a chance this won’t go
through?
Anolik:
(Laughs) I’ve got to laugh, Sandy.
Nine years we’ve been together, and
what do I tell you, I say, about
commonsense? You don’t bother using
it in the travel industry. It
wouldn’t be the travel industry if
everybody used commonsense. So, I’m
glad you’re reverting back to it.
Sandy:
(Laughs) Well, you know what, we’ve
been talking a little bit about the
folks that are really into this
legislation, that are trying to make
this work, and specifically it’s the
International Cruise Victims
association. We just came across
them a couple of months ago. I was
amazed at how many not only came to
us and wanted to tell their story,
but the breadth and the hundreds of
people that are involved in this
association. I also got my hands on
an old copy of the University of San
Francisco Maritime Law Journal. And,
when I say old, it’s 2007-2008.
There were some remarkable
statements in here like, for example
Al, you know the FBI, during a
period of beginning 2002 through
February of 2007, only 184 crimes
were reported to have occurred on
cruise ships. That’s amazing when
you figure there’s like millions and
millions of passengers.
Anolik:
You want to know why? They do not
have to report crimes against
non-citizens. These are not reported
to the FBI, number one; and, number
two, it’s the captain who decides
what is “serious” and reportable.
That is the key. And, if the captain
says, “I want to protect our
reputation, uh, this wasn’t really
an assault, a rape; it was 2 people
arguing and that’s not serious,”
they don’t get reported. So, we need
definitions of what must be
reportable, and they must report it.
And, not like in the Smith case. You
don’t send some of the crew down to
cover up where the blood was. There
is an old theory that, when I
represented the Maritime Union, and
then the ships I knew, that no one
who’s part of the crew wants to be
the ship’s rat. You rat on somebody;
you’re going to find a rat under
your covers. And, for that reason,
you’ve got this conspiracy of
silence that is hard to break. We
need legislation to start putting
people away if they do not report
crimes so we can help catch the
perpetrators.
Sandy:
You know, Al, we’ve got to get out
of here, but I want to thank you so
much. We’ve got to get you on soon,
maybe next month if you’ve got some
time. I know you are in trial so
often, but…
Anolik:
You know I’m always with you. The
website is travel law. Very simple,
travellaw. One word, two L’s. Always
willing to be on and talk to your
listeners.
Sandy:
Beautiful. And, Al is accessible. So
go and give his company a call. He
is an amazing man. Thank you, Al, so
much for your insight. My name is
Sandy Dhuyvetter. We’ll be right
back.
End
of Interview.
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